Big Joanie interview – “we’re already breaking rules in the real world, so you might as well do it in music as well.”
Three piece’s second album Back Home causing serious waves
“I think we definitely lean towards the idea that the creativity of people of colour doesn’t need to be seen only within a very perfectionist mainstream ideal. We exist beyond those boundaries, and we deserve to be seen in that way.” Big Joanie frontwoman Stephanie Phillips calmly relays her perspective on the broadening exposure of people of colour in alternative music, with a reserved air of hopefulness.
Chatting over Zoom during a small window of respite from her increasingly hectic schedule (the band recently finished up a UK headline tour in January, and are soon to embark on their first full US run next month), she elaborates on her anxious excitement. “The only time we played the US was at SXSW in Austin, so, we don’t really know what to expect. It’s exciting to just see that country and the different cities, cultures and dynamics, plus how people know and understand our album, Back Home, and how they’ve taken to it, so it’s a big unknown.”
The aforementioned Back Home was released at the end of 2022, with vinyl surfacing last month, and has signalled a significant expanding of the feminist trio’s sonic palette. Their 2018 debut full-length Sistahs was the first album to be released via Ecstatic Peace Library, a publishing company ran by visual book editor Eva Prinz and Sonic Youth’s Thurston Moore (who met the group following their opening set for Dutch punk outfit, The Ex). The project exuded many of the characteristics that make Big Joanie so unique; a black reimagining of the Riot Grrrl ethos, with their own summation being, “similar to The Ronettes filtered through 80s DIY and Riot Grrrl with a sprinkling of dashikis.”
“I found Riot Grrrl when I was a teenager like most people did around 15 or 16, and it was massively impactful on my musical influences, politics and my approach to DIY, punk and creativity. How you just don’t have to take what’s given to you in terms of the culture, that you can be an active participant and create the culture that you want to see in the world so, that was really vital to me.”
Channelling several 90s influences from the likes of Nirvana, The Breeders and The Jesus & Mary Chain, the melodic grunge-punk the trio offer is a refreshingly mature, emotive take on modern alternative rock. The planets would seemingly align following high-profile support slots for Gossip and Bikini Kill, as the band were deep in preparation for their follow up record when offered a helping hand by Kathleen Hannah’s Kill Rock Stars label. “They just were generally aware of what we were doing, and got in touch with us one day and asked if they could help us or if there was anything we needed and we were like, “yeah we need a label for the states” so, it was that simple really. They wanted to help in whatever way they could and it was just a great pairing because that was the first label that I really connected with as a teenager and would download all of the singles from their website, that’s how I found out about all the music that still influences me today.”
When asked about the somewhat surreal opportunity to be handed the mantle by artists vitally intrinsic to her own band’s makeup, she explains how, “Every artist that we’ve played or worked with has been a huge influence on us as a band before we’d even met them, and I think that’s the thing with sticking true to your values, what you believe in and your own sound rather than going with whatever trend. We make the music that we want to make, we have the politics that we have and that naturally draws people that are aligned to that, because they recognise what we’re doing and how we’re kind of following in their footsteps. It’s a bit scary at first meeting your idols but luckily, they’ve all been lovely which is a good thing.” She laughs, in what seems like, jubilant elation of how the entire situation has worked out.
Outside of the group, Stephanie and her bandmates (bassist, Estella Adeyeri and drummer, Chardine Taylor-Stone), all take part in communitarian work which includes volunteering at Girls Rock Camp, leading the Stop Rainbow Racism campaign (working to stop racist performances in LGBT venues), and helping to organise London’s Decolonise Fest; offering a platform for artists of colour who don’t necessarily fit into the archetypal scenes the music industry provides. “It was definitely an idea that needed to exist, I don’t think there was any space for those conversations around race or community and centring the work of artists of colour in alternative music. So, once we started to even talk about the idea, there was people planning for it. Before I’d even held a meeting to try and organise the festival, a venue called asking for us to book the date, so it was something that people wanted to exist. I think as a concept and as an idea, I mean there’s lots of places you can go and make sure that it’s established and can be a place where people of colour feel seen and feel like they can actually do whatever it is they want, rather than the more corporate idea of “do whatever you want to do but within certain boundaries””. She laughs again, possibly hinting that this very form of short sighted, unwarranted advice has been directly offered in the past.
With the tides turning, and artists of colour within alternative spectrums beginning to receive a much needed elevated platform while delivering sobering, challenging cries for change, (US acts such as Soul Glo and Zulu have been making waves in the hardcore scene over the past few years, while Asian-Australian outfit, Speed, just finished up a full tour supporting Turnstile); our conversation turns towards UK based acts espousing similar ideologies. “There are so many bands now actually, it’s kind of hard to sum them up, but definitely Nova Twins, who pushed for the alternative music sub-category at the MOBO awards. Even though it’s a black music awards, it’s been very mainstream so that’s quite a big change. Bob Vylan have also gone quite far and are doing some interesting things.”
Considering the fact that a band like Bad Brains are consistently regarded as one of the most essential punk acts to ever exist, Stephanie makes an astute point regarding the increased notice alternative bands of colour are only now starting to be awarded – “Usually, we’ve been pushed to the side so people don’t realise that we’re there but some of the most creative and forward thinking people in punk, alternative, metal, or hardcore have been people of colour who are already marginalised, and can think more clearly in that outsider way. I mean, we’re already breaking rules in the real world so, you might as well do it in music as well.”
In her teens, as a young black woman soaking up differing avenues of punk, grunge, Riot Grrrl spirit and the myriad of highly influential acts the late 80s and early 90s bore, the question arises whether being exposed to a near endless stream of predominantly white artists ever deterred her from feeling like she could find her place within these scenes. “The only person of colour that I remember or that I knew about was Poly Styrene [Marianne Joan Elliott-Said of X-Ray Spex]. I didn’t really know many other black artists who were doing alternative music, even though there were loads, the history just wasn’t available to me.”
As our conversation reverts to the subtle dynamic differences which elevate Back Home above its fuzzier predecessor, Stephanie clarifies that their decision to reunite with producer Margo Broom was a clear choice from the moment their debut LP was finished. “Once we got in the studio with her, it was just an interesting relationship as we’d never had a producer before or thought about how a record could be more than just the sum of its parts. It became a creative relationship where Margo would push us to be our best selves and throw some curveballs at us, so we’d have to think a bit harder. After we released Sistahs, we knew we wanted to work with Margo again, if she would take us.”
Expanding on the notable increase in nuanced instrumentation that weaves around their sophomore effort, Stephanie explains, “We didn’t want a one-note record really, or for it to be all slow or all fast songs, because that would be really boring. We thought about the track-listing, song structure, different elements, adding instruments that we wouldn’t have before”, but when it’s put to her that the resulting sonics may appear rather atypical of most modern punk groups, she sincerely claps back that, “I do think every song we have is a punk song, but I’m biased. I think everything I write is either a punk or a pop song, cos they’re one in the same. Bands that we’ve been inspired by like The Raincoats, The Slits, and X-Ray Spex, I think you can say that they’re less punk, but to me, they’re the most punk outfits that there is, because they’re really taking that message of “these are the instruments, do what you will with them”, and that’s the kind of direction we’re coming at punk from. It’s not really about shouting or just being loud and aggressive and nihilistic, because that didn’t really get anyone anywhere. I think that coming from a very feminist perspective of really trying to break down those boundaries and reconfigure a different way of communicating with the world. That’s our idea of punk.”
As a slow-building force of modern alternative rock and punk, championing positive messages for change catered to all marginalised minorities; questions do need to be asked around the somewhat tokenistic changes that are being made to awards categorisation with very little foresight, such as was the case with the recent BRIT awards debacle that altered the artist of the year category to be gender neutral, yet subsequently opted to nominate all male artists this year. “There isn’t much of an argument for why it would be gender segregated, but then I think you do need to have an awareness of that ingrained privilege and bias because you can say that you’re making it equal but if you’re not going about how the nominations are getting through, then that’s why you had all male nominations, because no one thought through the second half of that conversation regarding privilege and opening it up.”
Emblematic of a larger issue stemming from the true need for change constantly at odds with faux-progress, Stephanie understatedly points out that, “A lot of people don’t really want change, so they do the surface level stuff and everything else gets left behind and you end up with situations like this. I do have hope for the future because otherwise what’s the point? I think it’s a way forward, it just might be a bit awkward to get there.”
As our conversation winds down, it becomes evident that the earnest desire to instil positive change through punk ideology (and music in general), are essential components of what makes Big Joanie such a refreshing twist on modern alternative ideals. As an all-female, black trio imbued with a plethora of influences at their disposal to craft angular, fuzzy, emotive pieces that radiate subtlety and nuance in a manner not traditionally associated with the punk movement, their rallying cry has been bolstered extensively by the cathartic success of Back Home. “We’ve always had little goals but it wasn’t like we started a band and thought “We’re going to take over the world””, she laughs. “I do think you need to have something you want to achieve really. I think that’s okay, I mean ambition isn’t the worst thing in the world.”
Zach Buggy
Buy Big Joanie’s Back Home on vinyl, limited red vinyl or CD here